Author Topic: Darkside Burgman 400 (Pictures - New Car Tire to Replace at 24,050 miles)  (Read 2927 times)

Offline PAULRIDES

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5324
  • I might be old, but can mount without help. HA!
I had a lot of support from this ETB site (good folks) and it is appreciated.  ;D

I had a lot of support from the www.burgmanusa.com site as well. not many folks have darksided the 400 and there was interest as to how it would go and support with my problems and concerns.

The best support was Curtie (in person) as he came by and had the nerve to pull the tools to stretch the tire on the rim. Then had he nerve to go to 100 PSI to bead it. It had been under pressure of 85 and 95 psi a couple days with heat applied (portable heater at times set by it). Maybe that helped soften things up.  ??? It had been beat with a mallet, bounced off the pavement. I had about given up.  :groan

Took it over to Curt's and we ended up rotating the tire 180 degrees on the rim, used Dupont Spray Teflon (Chain Lube) as lubricant and the thing finally seated (as I reported before at around 100 psi).

Anyway, I installed it today. First problem was I remembered that we did not balance it after we seated it (to excited about getting it seated).  >:D  I also had thought I would balance it on the axle as I have other wheels. Wrong, there is a spline gear on the hub that mates with one on the Axle. So, no could do.

Called Bob and he said bring it over. He did a spin balance - the man has a nice setup in his basement and knows what he is doing.

Anyway, I got it installed with slow deliberate effort and only one interference problem. That is the larger diamaeter Car Tire and   interfered with a flange on the fender (fender is the bottom of the storage compartment under the seat). The tire tread at about 2 O'Clock on the wheel was barely hitting the flange and made it imposible to get the wheel straigh on the axle to align the splines on Huib and Axle. It is a plastic flange (first picture where I rubbed dirt of) where it looks like two parts come together to make up the fender - the two parts are the center of the fender (real dirty aprt behind he shinny black area) that is a hump for the tire to clear the fender and the rest of the side of the fender. I was able to cut part of the flange off with a knife (second picture - easy cut) and then able to align the hub with the axle (spline gears).

Muffler exhaust pipe clamp was probably the hardest thing to get to and that was not bad (a srewdriver type ratchet that my
G-Son gave nme sometime ago was a help (turn the handle like a screwdrievr and it rotates the ratchet socket).  ::)

Final pictures show the tire and tire after a test ride of 15 miles (long way arouhd to Jackie's House, 3 miles from me, to take his mallet back (excuse to Bettyfor a ride).  >:D).

Got a little lean time in, but took it easy as some roads still damp and I want to wear the tire in a bit.

Jackie sat on it and bounced up and down while I checked clearance of the fender (bottom of the storage area under the seat).  So far not close to touching. It was tight between the CVT and the OEM tire sidewall. This tire is not much wider (155 70R 13 vs OEM of 150 70 13). So,  not a lot of differnce and I can still get my fingers between the CVT and Tire sidewall.

All looks good so far and I am liking the tire. I like the tread (symertical and edges ar round). Insignificant difference tover the MC tire in handling with olinited riding to base that on.  :groan  It will get some riding soon.  :happypep

First few pictures show the clearance problem with the flange (black area I rubbed the dirt off). Pictures not too good, should have  used flash vs work light.  Shows the knife I used to cut the plastic (wish I had not taken off as much as I did - Hindsight). The next picture show where I started cut (above the second 'L' in the Tire Name).

Then another picture showing clearance at front of tire to the motor.

Then pictures of the spacers abd Swing Arm installation.

Have to put brake caliper on and set Parking Brake to hold the axle while yoy torque the axle nut. Then, torgue the two bolts at the other end of the swing arm.

Then the muffler, clamp is only hard thing to get at. G-Sons tool worked good on the bolt to get it near tight then ratchet the rest of it. No Plastic removed for any of this. :21

Tire pictures and the last picture is after the test ride. Lean does not get far up the sidewall (see top edge of tire - what looks like running ring).
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 02:49:06 pm by PAULRIDES »
Ride Country Roads - a lot. :-)

Offline Luvmystar

  • Moderator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2467
Re: Darkside Burgman 400 (Car Tire is on and a Test Ride (15 miles made)
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2014, 10:56:32 pm »
 :happypep Paul rides again!!!!!
Marc

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Offline Curtie223

  • Moderator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7556
Re: Darkside Burgman 400 (Car Tire is on and a Test Ride (15 miles made)
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2014, 04:45:57 am »
I believe this turned out to be a lot bigger job than you were originally expecting. Haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 2001 KTM 300exc 
 2004 LTZ400



-When you see another rider keep in mind that is another friend you haven't had the chance to meet yet!!
-Riding is about doing what you love! No matter what you ride or how you ride. Just as long as you

Offline Marid2apterbilt

  • 1-SLW-LCL
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2806
  • Dumb Mtn Hermit
Re: Darkside Burgman 400 (Car Tire is on and a Test Ride (15 miles made)
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2014, 07:33:41 am »
Glad to see it all worked out.

Instead of cutting the fender maybe a heat gun to reform it or a shorter sidewall tire on future conversions..
Quote from: Hot Blonde young Waitress
Fine dont eat my CUPCAKES then

Just because your a Touron doesnt mean we Locals should kiss your......

 http://129slayer.com



http://www.easttnbikers.com/forum/

Ha! Not gonna happen.

Offline PAULRIDES

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5324
  • I might be old, but can mount without help. HA!
Re: Darkside Burgman 400 (Car Tire is on and a Test Ride (15 miles made)
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2014, 09:11:08 am »
It did turn out to be a job.  IADD without Curt's help -- I might have gave up.  O)

Oh Well - Be sitting around on my butt if not doing that. Probably, Bob could have done it quickly with his equipment and he only charged Gary $15 a wheel (wheel off) on his Valk ($15 for Car Tire off and on the rear - and $15 for MC tire off and on the front).

I do not know how much business wants as he is retired and just carried over a lot of his equipment from work days. Really has a nice place in the basement.

Considering $15, I made about $.01 per hour and that does not count gas going to Po-Boys, Curt's, Bob's or what I gave them for their effort. I think I went in the hole -- but it was a learning  and satisfying experience.

Like a buddy said, not much per hour, but a lot of hours.  Going to push for minimum wage next time (would have made a fortune).

I don't think there is any problem with the fender, but I did not need to cut as deep as I did. Half the depth of the flange would have ben plenty.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 09:18:48 pm by PAULRIDES »
Ride Country Roads - a lot. :-)

Offline PAULRIDES

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5324
  • I might be old, but can mount without help. HA!
Re: Darkside Burgman 400 (Car Tire is on and a Test Ride (15 miles made)
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2014, 08:41:57 pm »
A 4000 miles +/- a little UPDATE on the Car Tire.

I posted this under a previous Topic -- better record of the tire on this topic. 

Measured tread depth a few places in center (0.200 +/- a little)

Took picture (4000 miles on the Car Tire) today at 10,200 miles on the Scooter, Car Tire since 6200 miles (0.200 +  a little on average). Initial when new was 0.25 +/- inch.

Pictures:

New- Zero Miles (0.250 +/- inch depth)

1200 Miles

4000 Miles (0.200 + a little).
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 09:20:22 pm by PAULRIDES »
Ride Country Roads - a lot. :-)

Offline PAULRIDES

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5324
  • I might be old, but can mount without help. HA!
Update on Car Tire Usage. New Tread Depth was 0.250 inch)

First Picture at 11,800 Miles (Tread Depth 0.140 inch)

Second Picture at 16,500 Miles (Tread Depth 0.115 inch)

Third Picture at 20, 300 Miles (Tread Depth - not measured, near wear bars). 
Ride Country Roads - a lot. :-)

Offline BudLong

  • True Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 482
So, how much more wear are you getting wtih the car tire then you would have with th MC tire (2x, 3x)?

Offline PAULRIDES

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5324
  • I might be old, but can mount without help. HA!
So, how much more wear are you getting wtih the car tire then you would have with th MC tire (2x, 3x)?

The Burgman 400 with OEM Tire (Bridgstone) that was on it got 6200 miles (see picture) and it was pretty slick for say alst 500 or 1000 miles). It appears this Car Tire will go 24,000 based on 20,300 in the picture. 

Plus, OEM Tire is about $100 plus instalaltion (unless you do it yourself).

The Car Tire was like $50 plus shipping (I think I remember total was about $75). Assume I would have had to replace the OEM Tire every 6000 miles (Initial install, save $25 over OEM Tire,  Next change at 6000 save $100,  Next change at 12000 save $100,  Next change at 18000 save $100) = $325 over the 24,000 miles.

Not to mention, that assumes you do the work yourself VS paying for getting it changed AND the aggravtion of changing it every 6000 miles and running on a slick OEM tire for 500 or 1000 each time.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 09:14:54 am by PAULRIDES »
Ride Country Roads - a lot. :-)

Offline BudLong

  • True Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 482
yup, when i first got my bike i had to keep in storage for a while before i could get it on the road (long story).  anyway while i was waiting i learned of "the darkside" and did some research.  also had a co-worker that rode and he went darkside on a Honda something 1800.  It was a beautiful bike and as i saw what all he did to make the switch and everything i read and watched on youtube got me interested. 

when i finally DID get on the road i decided to just run normal MC tires.  since this is my first bike i figured it would be a good idea to get some experience before jumping into that.  but i'm sure i'll do it myself at some point.

ride on Paul   :happyrider

Offline PAULRIDES

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5324
  • I might be old, but can mount without help. HA!
I think you will be happy if you do. Not any big difference in the ride (Negligible).

I have not know anyone that is sad they did. 

Deuce runs Darkside on his VTX 1300 and Smokin Joe does on all three of his Valk's. They posted about it on here.

 
Ride Country Roads - a lot. :-)

Offline PAULRIDES

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5324
  • I might be old, but can mount without help. HA!
22,600 miles on Car Tire.

Car Tire getting close (very close) to needing to be replaced (might go another 500 or 1000 miles)

I have been inspecting more often that usual. I did this evening at 22,600 miles of use over period from 02-13-2014 to 05-8-2015.

I had my cell phone with me and took three pictures. Pictures Show the edge wear difference, but not the flat wear difference. I mainly tried to show to show the edge wear difference as the flat wear difference is not as obvious.

Note wear remarks.

Very Obvious the left edge (lean wear) is worse that the right. Also, this wear changed a lot from pictures at 20,000 miles (posted earlier). So, it will not last much longer.

Left side of tire is worn more than the right (talking sort of steady slope from left to right on flat surface of the tire).

MY GUESS as to WHY the difference in edge wear (whatever the cause, it is what it is):

Left lean edge gets more wear as left curves are always longer than right curves and I likely go a little faster on left turns because there is more visibility.

Plus, when I take off from an intersection or go thru an intersection turning left, I usually accelerate nearly straight out across the first lane and then lean hard to the left. Not as likely to do that turning right from an intersection as do not have the first lane to accelerate.
Ride Country Roads - a lot. :-)

Offline PAULRIDES

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5324
  • I might be old, but can mount without help. HA!
Replaced at 24,050 miles and guess could have gone another 1000 or 2000 based on fact that edge still had estimated 1/10 rubber. However, it was for msot part slick (left edge). Right edge not slick yet.

Much easier replacement this time -- Bob did it with his removal / install machine and spin balance machine. Don't know what pressure he used tos eat it -- I am not sure I wanted to know.  :o

$20 wheel off, use to be $15 wheel off. Either raised price or based it on fact he had to reset machine and extra weigh balancing.  ???

Pictres;

Show old and new Car Tire (same brand).

Show cut I made along edge to see how much rubber was left (I did not reach cord - hard to cut). Micrometer said 0.085 (estimate about 1/10 inch left). Except for being slick on left edge and below wear indicators everyplace, could run another 2000 I think. Might be concern about the slick if road wet.

Pretty easy Wheel Off - take muffler to exhaust pipe clamp loose, three muffler mounting bolts, remove caliper, remove swing arm (triangle with axle nut holding one end and two bolts on front section, then pull wheel off (splines in Hub and Axle).

Then load wheel and new tire on NINJA TRUCK and go to Bob's. His part was about 30 MIN to replace tire. Very Professional Capable Mechanic with 28 years of owning a shop before he retired here and about 8 or more MCs of his he is an enthusiast and loves working on bikes. 

NOTE: His latest Pickers Bike - Harley something or other from I think he said 1965. He hopes to sell it as is to another Picker.

I have wheel back on and swing arm on (finger tight). I have to get new rear pads as mine are Paper Thin. Then install Caliper and Torgue swing arm and axle, then install muffler and good to go for another 24K or 25K miles.   :happypep   $46.15 for tire and $20 for install.

 

 



 
Ride Country Roads - a lot. :-)