Author Topic: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Moving On -- 03-10 Have the clutch disassembled))  (Read 7747 times)

Offline PAULRIDES

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Sometime ago (Nov was it?), I had what I thought was a "CVT Failure" on my 2007 Burgman 650 with 73,800 miles when I lost power to the rear wheel.

I then verified the Seconday Pulley is turning by removing the Air Filter and watching the secondary pulley. Maybe, that means not the CVT (at least belt is not completly broken, I guess it could be something else in CVT).

However, someone on the BURGMAN USA Forum suggested a Clutch Test per the Book. I don't have a book - so he wrote back "hold the brake on and rev up the engine (short time of a couple seconds), if REVs exceed 3000 to 3800, tehn the Clutch is bad". Mine went to 6000rpm before I let off.

Original failure Mode -- I was rolling along and lost power to rear wheel with top speed of 25mph, then lost speed up a hill, finally pulled over to let cars go by and it would not pull away from a stop. Close to home, so a motorist stopped and took me home - got trailer and hauled it home. Added some stabilizer to the gas and have been starting the Scooter once in awhile.

Finally, decided to at least get the clutch cage off (if I can - looking at Videos, and procedures on LeDude).
I am not sure I can take the clutch apart (tools, etc.) - maybe try that if some friends can help. OR, take the Clutch Assembly to a dealer to see what they think. AND SEE WHAT IT COSTS.

I got the floorboard out of the way by removing necessary screws and buttons, then pulled it from the fender (Tabs on fender plug into the floorboard and I was too lazy tot ake the fender off). I got the floorboard loose enough to tie it back (easier to get to the ten bolts holding the clutch cover). I should have taken a picture of the fender tied back.

Not saying I recommend that to someone worried about cosmetics. I am not worried about cosmetic damage as this scooter has some as it is and at 73800 miles it is not worth much.

I am not going to spend much on fixing it, but I would like to keep it as a ride anyplace Scooter (not trails, but gravel roads, etc., as I said it is all ready beat up some and at 73800 miles, it is not worth much). One other option would be to find a wrecked (front end wreck) and buy it - take my front end and put it on the other bike. Saw a 2007 with front damge for $700 - probably should have jumped on it as low mileage (15K).

More later - a tool of some sort is needed to hold the outer cover (cage) of the clutch to break the nut loose. 50 ft lb I think it is.
Need a similar tool when the time comes for the Burgman 400. Like a steel bar with a Y and two bolts at end of the Y to fit in holes on the cage and brace to the ground or something. Then take the nut off.

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1v-h81GVriXr9pUFZ7UwmgKV97dTqIN2HSDeb9wWjOCc

Gary can probably make me one, nice if one would fit both Scooters.

Anyway, this is as far as I got. (picture) And, I am in no hurry as I have other rides (NINJA 500 /2008/ and a Burgman 400 /2011/. Bought the 400 in Dec of 2013 with 5100 miles on it).  
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 08:58:53 pm by PAULRIDES »
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Offline Deuce

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2014, 09:56:26 pm »
You need a spanner wrench. Fairly inexpensive to buy at most tool retailers or online if you can't have one made.
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Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 10:05:26 pm »
You need a spanner wrench. Fairly inexpensive to buy at most tool retailers or online if you can't have one made.

Thanks.

The link in my post shows what the guy made to do his. That one has two bolts (one at each end of the Y with the correct threads to go in two holes on the clutch cover). Then one longer arm that reaches to ground or a block of wood to hold it from turning as you unscrew the nut. . .

The darn Burgman 400 is differnt in that the clutch cover is a bell housing and it just has large holes to stick a bolt or a stud in (not threaded). Then the primary pulley on the 400 has flanges (fins that act as a fan to draw air into the CVT for cooling) and the tool has to fit between the flanges. The same tool can be used for both parts of the 400 -- but not sure can make one compatiable with the 650 clutch as well.

Spanner wrenches that I think of would not work (maybe you are referring to something I do not know about - that is very likely as I am not a mechanic) :groan).

Possibly an impact wrench would get the nut off without holding the cover in place (that works on the 400 pulley and clutch). But then you have to torque the nut when you put it back on (either with a torque wrench or an impact with a torque stick - again some folks do that on the burgman 400, not sure it works on the 650 and you would need three different Torque Sticks. $$$

Might be some other 'jury rig' to hold the thing  ::)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 11:21:03 pm by PAULRIDES »
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Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2014, 11:34:27 pm »
A short story made long.

I had been starting the Burgman 650 every couple or three weeks (since it has been sitting in NOV).

Before I started the Clutch Case removal, I thought to start it and let it run a few minutes. It did not start even though it cranked over strong. I figured the battery might be low and I put it on charge and went on with the case removal.

Next morning, I had the case off and of course oil drained. I decided to see if teh engine would start (only run it a second or so). It did not start, but cranked over very strong.  Cranking it pumped oil out of the hole (a hole on chassis that feeds oil to the case and up the little tummel to the bearing in the case). Not a lot, but enought to make a mess on the rag and paper I had down.

While cleanig up - I noticed a part (like a valve stem - see picture) that apparently was flushed out of the chassis hole by the oil. I figured where it came from, but wondered which way to put it back in (small end first or large end first).

I was at Mtn Motrosports today after a ride. Ian looked up the part on the OEM Parts list -- little end goes in first.  ;D THANKS Ian (I would have taken me foreevr to find a picture of that part).  

Picture of the part (first picture) and the hole (seond picture) it came out of (hole below the guide pin that has a bit of oil on it).  
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 11:35:26 pm by PAULRIDES »
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Offline Sarge

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2014, 07:55:36 am »
Very interesting. I enjoy working on my bike. I enjoy riding more but get a sense of satisfaction out of learning how the machine works. I would even go as far as to say that working on our own bikes makes us better, safer riders.
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Offline r6boater

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2014, 08:12:40 am »
Paul, we have a clutch holding tool you can borrow if need be. Its like a pair of vise grips with really long jaws that are bent at a 90* on the end to hold the clutch, it also has little dogs that can stick in the holes on the outer face of the clutch. Let me know if you'd like to try it.

Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2014, 09:25:29 am »
Thanks a bunch.

I would like to try it.

It may not work on the Burgman 650 as the holes are small and threaded for a bolt to go in. But, cerainly worth a try.

There are a couple designs (homemade ones) on the www.BurgmanUSA.com site and I intend to get one made (eventually for the Burgman 400, because it is new and replacing belts and clutches is an ongoing thing on those).

The 650 if anything will be a one time deal for me as if I get it fixed and running (at 73800 miels now) - I do not expect to keep it liong enough for the next clutch to go - I HOPE just get a few more thousand miles out of it.

I will PM you. Thanks Again.  ;D :21
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Offline r6boater

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2014, 10:27:43 am »
You might be better off to find bolts to go in the holes, then use a long screwdriver or prybar "laced" between the two bolts to give you something to hold onto as you wrench to nut off. An impact would make it easier but wouldn't be absolutely necessary.

I got your PM, I'll give you a call later...at the hospital right now, wifey surgery...

Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2014, 02:58:03 pm »
Hope all OK with the wife.

To be honest, I had thought of the bolts and putting a pry bar laced between them. First thing I have to do is get the bolt size.

Thanks for the feedback.
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Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2014, 11:21:22 pm »
Spent a little time on the Clutch Cage Removal today.

By the way -- I misquoted  Kurt on the type holes on the case to put a tool in, they are not threaded. They are about 5/16 diameter. I had a couple blots that nearly fit in there and took a file to file the threads off to make them fit.

Cannot really lace a pry bar between the bolts to hold the thing in place because it would be over the center of the hub and not be able to get a socket and wrench on the nut.

Thought I would try one thing figuring it would not work. (It Did Not) That is, I put block of wood from the floor up to one of the two bolts to see if that would keep it from turning while I tried the nut. Sort of worked, but without something on the other bolt, I did not put too much pressure on the nut (I think it is torqued to 75 Ft lb). Anyway, it did not come loose.  :groan

I then noticed the Clutch Cage with the Shaft was all coming off together. The shaft goes into a spline gear on the cahsis end. Modified Procedure I guess is what you would call it. Good or Bad, I am not sure. ???

It is not that the shaft should not come out (as it is recommended to inspect it and the gears). But, not sure you can get it back  on as one piece (Clutch Cage and Shaft all at once). Also, not sure you can get the guts (plates, etc.) out of the Clutch Cage with the sahft still in there. Looks like you could if you can get the Springs compressed to release the "C" Clip holding everything in the Clutch Cage.

Anyway, here are pictures:

Picture 1 is the Clutch Cage showing backside (after removal from the Scoter).

Picture 2 is a view of the chassis where the shaft goes into the spline gear. I think the gear below is a reduction gear that meshes witht eh Clutch.  

Picture 3 is a view of the Clutch Cage taken yesterday while it was sill mounted to the Scooter. See the shaft nut that I was trying to get loose (then the Clutch Cage would have slid off the shaft and left the shaft into the spline gear).

PS: The whole thing looks to me like you could slide it back in there (mesh up spline gear). But, only if you can get the springs compressed, "C" clip removed, and then replace the plates in the clutch). Otherwise, guess - I will have to find a way to get the shaft nut loose (might be easier to hold the hub with it off the Scooter)  ???

It is H__L when you do not know what you are doing.  ::)  

I do have a procedure from LeDude (he made a tool to hold the hub and  used an impact wrench to get the hub nut off, then made a spring compression tool (shaft has to be out of the Clutch Cage as  his compression tool uses a threaded rod that goes thru the center of the Clutch Cage).  
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 11:24:44 pm by PAULRIDES »
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Offline Deuce

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2014, 04:06:37 am »
Spent a little time on the Clutch Cage Removal today.

By the way -- I misquoted  Kurt on the type holes on the case to put a tool in, they are not threaded. They are about 5/16 diameter. I had a couple blots that nearly fit in there and took a file to file the threads off to make them fit.

Cannot really lace a pry bar between the bolts to hold the thing in place because it would be over the center of the hub and not be able to get a socket and wrench on the nut.  

You should use holes side by side (90 degrees) not the ones across from each other (180 degrees).
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Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2014, 09:15:46 pm »
You should use holes side by side (90 degrees) not the ones across from each other (180 degrees).

I am a bit lost on which holes youa re talking about???  There are only two large holes in the flat surface and tehy are that ar 180 degree apart in line with the center line.

The normal tool uses these. It is "Y Tool" so there is access to the center. There are four little holes closer to the center spaced 90 degrees. But, I do not think those are for holding the tool (I might need to find out what they are far  ::). .

There are holes on the perimeter  -- one might use those. Are those the ones you refer too?  

« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 09:17:03 pm by PAULRIDES »
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Offline Deuce

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2014, 10:45:35 pm »
I am a bit lost on which holes youa re talking about???  There are only two large holes in the flat surface and tehy are that ar 180 degree apart in line with the center line.

The normal tool uses these. It is "Y Tool" so there is access to the center. There are four little holes closer to the center spaced 90 degrees. But, I do not think those are for holding the tool (I might need to find out what they are far  ::). .

There are holes on the perimeter  -- one might use those. Are those the ones you refer too?  



I was referring to the small holes. There shouldn't be enough torque to cause a problem as long as you keep your bar close to the surface.
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Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2014, 08:47:47 pm »
The latest as of today 03-10-14.

Seeking advice on what is good and bad for Clutch Parts (see pictures) Maybe there is a Micrometer Spec someplace????

As I said before -- the shaft just goes to a spline gear on the chassis side and came off with the Clurch Cage when I was trying to remove the shaft nut (22MM Nut).

First picture shows the Clutch Cage with all the parts in including the shaft (round thing with spline gear inside that goes to the Chasis side).

I bought a PVC End Cap (5 inch outside diameter) thinking I might be able to use it to make a Spring Compression Tool (Similar to one in LeDude's Procedure that a guy on Burgman/USA made). I had also talked to a neighbor (Steve of Iron Horse) about using an Impact Wrench (Electric Battery Powered) to get the Shaft nut off the Clutch Cage in case I needed or decided to do that.

Second picture is recreation of idea I used to Compress the Springs to get the "C'C clip out. Instead of making a Compression Tool. I laid the Clutch Cage on two blocks of wood (working parts up) and the shaft (about an inch long) between the two boards. Sorry, I did not take a picture of that, but I did take one after everything was apart to give an idea of what I did.

The PVC End Cap was installed in the center of the Clutch Cage so as to rim the inner workings. Steve stood on the PVC Cap while I removed the 'C'-Clip. Make Sense??? We expected the whole thing to blow up from spring pressure after I had the 'C' Clip out and he removed his foot. We did not see anything move, not much spring pressure or a short throw on it?

Third picture shows the Clutch Cage (shaft still in) with all the parts out that we could take out with the shaft still in. We had by then taken the Shaft Nut off (see it laying to the upper right in the picture). Also, see the innards in upper right.

Fourth picture shows the Clutch Hub with the Shaft still in the hub. It is not going to slip out of there real easy, but I have not tried hard to separate them. Not sure I need to, may have to in order to get things back together. In the picture, I have reinstalled the nut and washer on the shaft (not to loose them or forget what goes where).

Fifth Picture shows everything except the "C' Clip. Turned the Clutch Cage over and the Shaft and Clutch Hub turned in the direction they would be if the Clutch Cage was installed back on the Shaft. Again, nut and washer or on the shaft. I ran a twine thru everything to keep them in order. (LeDude's Picture also shows the order).

Sixth picture is close up of the shaft end (still in the Clutch Hub) showing the spline gears that go into the Clutch Cage. All looks to be in good shape after 73,800 miles.

Seventh picture shows the Clutch Cage with the shaft out, see the spline gears in the Clutch Cage and the springs and bolts that hold them and the. All looks in good shape after 73,800 miles. SPRINGS -- I have not disassembled the springs, but I probably will replace those while it is all apart if I decide to replace everything else.

Eigth picture shows the bundle of plates and springs tied to keep them in right order. The fiber plate shown on top is the one that drives against the Clutch Cage in picture 8. In other words the retaining and "C" Clip are on the bottom.

Ninth 7 Tenth pictures is close up of the plates. Good? Bad? - I do not know. there are no catastrophic failures as fiber is still there. Not sure how thick they should be.

All the parts would be in the range of $200 plus, so unless I think the clutch is a fix for my original problem, I may give up. I am not getting into the actual CVT.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 08:52:57 pm by PAULRIDES »
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Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Burgman 650 Clutch Project (Wonder how far I will get on this one?)
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2014, 08:55:01 pm »
I was referring to the small holes. There shouldn't be enough torque to cause a problem as long as you keep your bar close to the surface.

Those small holes are filled with bolts -- the springs in the clutch are mounted in those holes.  Thanks for the effort. 
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Offline Deuce

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That would prove to be a bit of a flaw in my suggestion...lol
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Offline PAULRIDES

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 :lol

Any thoughts on the Clutch Plates (Fiber ones). They are thin in my opinion (opinion meaning I do not know how thick they normally are)? A decision I have to research.
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Offline Deuce

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I would have to get the specs to measure it or compare it to a new one. Or you could maybe take the pieces to someone that regularly works on those.
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Offline Curtie223

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Re:
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2014, 03:41:32 am »
If you get into the cvt we have a puller tool that you can use

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Offline PAULRIDES

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Re:
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2014, 07:14:39 am »
If you get into the cvt we have a puller tool that you can use

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Thanks.  ;D

I am thinking to stop at the Clutch (if I draw the conclusion it is the problem and go on with fixing it and it does not fix it - I will probably quit there). The CVT is I think too much for me to get involved with - dropping the whole drive train from the frame and way too costly for a Shop Repair considering it has 73800 miles on it.

Another problem I have not addressed is - last time I tried to start it, it did not. It had started a week or so before (I have been starting it every week or two since failure). I filled the tank, put stabilizer in the tank and ran the engine a few times with stabilizer.
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Offline Curtie223

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The fibers will be hard to tell. The tolerances are pretty close. there's a fine line between grab and no grab. You will have to take into consideration the steels will wear a bit too. If you replace the fibers you really should replace the steels too. Generally it doesn't cost much more at all to buy the clutch kit that will have steels, fibers and springs. That will last you another 73k miles. haha

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Offline Deuce

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I've seen bikes with bad slippage that only NEEDED springs.
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Offline PAULRIDES

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Thanks Curt and Larry.

This is different than a regular MC Clutch (operation of, that is) as this engages centrifugally.

There are Roller Weights behind the plate shown in the pitcure below (Cannot see them as they are behind the palte in picture below showing the the four springs). The plate is held away from contact with the rest of the clutch by the springs (at idle - less than about 2000rpm). Then when the RPM gets higher, the roller weights behind the plate push it out against the springs to cause it to move push all the plates together. Then the power gets transfered to the wheels.  :happypep

By the way, there are the springs between plates (second picture black rings) that keep the plates apart (so, no power to the wheels) until the final plate is pushed out against the other plates by the roller weights when engine speed gets up over 2000rpm.

So, as I see it --- SPRINGS (4 shown) as I understand operation being weak would not affect clutch engagement, but might result in some pulling (torque to the wheel at below normal takeoff speed of 2000rpm).

Clutch slppage would nearly have to be ONLY from wear on plates (steel and fiber) or a problem with the Roller Weights not causing the final plate to move and push the plates together.

All that operation theory is just my opinion, but I hhave seen pictures of the springs and plate reomoved abd their are roler weights behind the plate.   (It is just my theory as to how it operates - not a known fact).  I do know it is centrifugal operated as engine speed picks up, and therefore allows slippage at idle (The CVT Belt is turning the Secondary pulley all the time and that shaft is transferred to the Clutch). 

One guy on BurgmanUSA.com  site worked his - he said his plates looked worse than mine (He had fiber wear and blueing from heat on the steel plates).

Another guy sent me some specifications on plates. I HAVE NOT FILTERED THRU all that yet, but it looks as Curt said (tolerances are tight and may be hard to tell). 

ITEM STANDARD LIMIT mm (In)
Drive plate thickness 2,92 3,08 (0,115 0,121) 2,62 (0,103)
Drive plate claw width 13,85 13,96 (0,545 0,550) 13,05 (0,514)
Driven plate No.2 thickness 2,42 2,58 (0,095 0,102) 2,27 (0,089)
Driven plate No.1 distortion 0,10 (0,004)
Clutch spring free length 13,9 (0,547) 13,2 (0,520)
Clutch plate concaved washer height 3,1 (0,12)
Clutch engagement 1 500 2 100 r/min.
Clutch lock-up 3 200 3 800 r/min.
__________________
 
Drive plate thickness:
Service Limit: 2.62 mm (0.095 in)
Driven plate No.2 thickness:
Service Limit: 2.27 mm (0.0894 in)

Drive plate claw width:
Service Limit: 13.05 mm (0.5138 in)

CLUTCH DRIVEN PLATE NO.2 INSPECTION
Distortion of driven plate:
Service Limit: 0.1 mm (0.004 in)

Clutch spring free length:
Service Limit: 13.2 mm (0.5197 in)

Clutch plate concaved washer height:
Service Limit: 3.1 mm (0.12 in

 
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Offline Deuce

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With that in mind Paul I would be suspect of the roller weights. But, the closest thing to that setup I've dealt with is a torque converter for an Allison transmission...lol
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Offline PAULRIDES

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I feel DUMB-- after all the talk about Spec's on Clutch Components, I looked back at LeDude's Clutch Install (Part 2). I had only printed out the removal (Part 1). Install (Part 2) has the measurments and pictures of him doing the measurements. GRoan

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SdNicgBkqAUe_JxUxEXBNZKnpv3UYrKa8Y9k7ohEeFM/preview
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Offline PAULRIDES

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MEASUREMENTS ____ Drive Plate #2s have fiber on ONE side (two of them). Drive Plate #2s have fiber on TWO sides (5 of them) and Claws on outside edge, Drive Plates Steel do not have Fiber (4 of them).
 
Mine look OK (see measurements below).  Dang, I thought sure it would be the clutch.
 
 NOW WHAT???  I am open to suggestions (solutions). :-)
 
There are a couple measurements I have not made (Warp tolerance on the Drive Plate Steel, Spring Washer, and the Four Springs (clutch springs). However, I do not see those causing my problem of clutch slipping. If anything, to me they would cause creeping at idle speed (1200 RPM) vs a clutch slipping. The 4 springs act against the centrifugal weights to keep the clutch disengaged at low RPM, Idle is 1200rpm and power to the wheel picks up at about 1800 to 2000rpm. I see the other springs also keeping the plates out of contact at idle. I can see a warped steel plate causing slippage, but hard to see it being as bad as mine was (would not pull at all after first having a maximum of 25mph at as much as 6000 rpm).
 
I did not have a creeping at idle problem. 
 
Here is the deal and what I have measured -- From left to right. There would be
 
ITEM 1) 'C" Clip (not in the picture as I had it laid aside when I took the picture), so picture starts with
 
ITEM 2) Spring Seat (large black ring),
3) Concave Washer (small black ring),
4) Outer Plate (steel with the claws spaced around the edge),
5) Drive Plate #2 (fiber on one side-opposite side than shown-away from engine and goes against the outer palte) -- 2 Total (one each end),
6) Drive Plate #1 (Fiber on both sides) -- 5 Total,
7) Spring Washer (keeps the plates pushed apart when clutch is not centrifugally engaged),
8) Drive Plate Steel --  4 Total
Items Etc., Etrc., up  to ITEM 20 which is the last plate (Another Drive Plate #2 - a one side fiber.

First picture is items layed out and descriobed above.

Then the measurments::
1 --- Drive Plate #2 (ITEM 5 above with Fiber on one side) measured 2.40MM (+/- 0.01, 0.02 I think).  There are two of them total (one on each end of the clutch). Both measured the same within .01 or .02MM. Standard is 2.42 - 2.58MM and Limit is 2.27MM.    So, mine are below the Standard by 0.02 +/-, but above the limit.
 
Note: I felt I got a better measurement holding the plate and Micrometer as shown.The Micrometer surface is touching several fiber pads of the clutch plate. I measured in a couple different places on each ring.

2 ---- Drive Plate #1 (ITEM 6 above with Fiber on both sides) measured 3.04MM (+/- 0.01 or 0.02, I think). There are 5 of them total and all measured within 3.01 to 3.04MM (+/- error). Standard is 2.92 - 3.08MM and Limit is 2.62MM.    So, mine are above middle of standard and well above the limit. 

 
3 ---- I measured the OUTER PLATE (ITEM 4 above) in two places: Thickest next to my finger is 3.98MM.
(I estimate all  measurements are +/- (.01 or .02), Thinnest point is 3.26MM.
I have not seen a spec on this item  - I just measured it for the heck of it in case there is a spec. Maybe someone on Burgmanusa.com site knows.


4 ---- two measuremts with no picture. I also measured the thickness of the Drive Plate Steel (ITEM 8 above). Mine were 1.98 to 2.00MM. I have not seen a spec except for warp tolerance (lay on flat surface and test with a feeler gage to see if they are warped). I have not done that as not sure I have a good flat surface, maybe desk top plexiglas. But, I think a warped plate would also cause creeping at idle (maybe slippage also). 
 
I also measured the CLAWS around the edge of ITEM 4 (Outer Plate) and ITEM 6 (Drive Plate #1).
I did not measure every claw, just 2 or 3 on each ring.  Meausred 13.90MM +/_  0.01 or 0.02, I think.   LIMIT is 13.05MM. So, well in spec.
 
5 --- (Last Picture) Refresher on rest of clutch (4 Springs). Those four springs hold that plate in against the hub at low RPM, Weights behind the plate cause it to move out (centrifugal force) and compress the Drive Plates against the Drive Plate Metal at higher RPM  The the rear wheel spins. Cannot see weak springs causing my problem, but I will measure their length and look at the Roller Weights when I take that apart. 


 
Ride Country Roads - a lot. :-)

Offline Curtie223

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Re:
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2014, 09:08:25 am »
Im still thinking it's the cvt, either belt or weights..... i know that's a bigger job than you want to get into. But the belt not gripping properly would cause the slipping effect you describe...

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Offline IanC

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Re:
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2014, 10:18:39 am »
i know that's s african american job than you want to get into.
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Offline Curtie223

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Re:
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2014, 12:57:54 pm »
Damn auto type lol, fixed

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Offline gl1dinorider

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paul, you obviously need a bigger hammer.

even if you don't fix it, you will feel better after flailing on it for a while.
What does "riding season" mean?