Author Topic: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!  (Read 11520 times)

Offline Chris

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2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« on: January 05, 2015, 10:39:00 pm »
Recent spy shots of the Triumph neo-Bonneville show a liquid cooled larger engine in a cafe racer retro package that would probably take the place of the current Thruxton model.  The 2016 model will probably be called the Street Tracker based on the new trademark copyrights that Triumph has filed.  Here's a photo and links to the story on the Cycle World and Visor Down websites:




http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/12/18/2016-triumph-street-tracker-and-street-tracker-r-motorcycle-spy-photos/

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/new-1100cc-triumph-cafe-racer-spied-testing/26040.html
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 10:45:48 pm by Chris »
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Offline Sarge

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2015, 11:30:07 pm »
Very nice.
 :21
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Offline LuckyPuck

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2015, 07:47:45 am »
I'm on the fence....   I've been saying for years that this is what they needed to do with he Thruxton but now I'm not sure...  That radiator isn't going to last long in that location.  and really, a liquid cooled 1100 making 90hp.   With the air cooled 865 with 994 big bore kit there is people reliably putting down 90hp and with less weight.  I may have to buy the old Thruxton and put a big bore kit on it when the new one comes out and everybody dumps their old one.

I think the air cooled motors are going the way of the 2-stroke though.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2015, 08:17:00 am »
I think air cooled motorcycle engines will be around a long time.
 :n21
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Offline LuckyPuck

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2015, 08:49:13 am »
I think air cooled motorcycle engines will be around a long time.
 :n21



Not 50 state,  most of them wont pass emissions requirements in some states after 2016,  even Harley and BMW have had to transition to liquid cooling on some models to get them to pass. I say by 2020 there wont be any for sale, at least not street legal, unless there is some technological breakthrough. 
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Offline Luvmystar

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2015, 10:00:01 pm »
 :ditto The air cooled are being phased out due to emissions.Pretty much a known fact.Sucks.  BTW here what I think of the EPA  :33
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Offline Sarge

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2015, 11:41:00 am »
:ditto The air cooled are being phased out due to emissions.Pretty much a known fact.Sucks.  BTW here what I think of the EPA  :33

I am old school and behind the times on this sort of info, but I just cannot imagine a world without air cooled Harley's. I am thinking they may find a way around this rule. Harley is an American icon.

 :n21
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Offline LuckyPuck

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2015, 12:22:06 pm »
Some of the new Harleys (The touring models)  already have liquid cooled heads with plans to trickle them down to the rest of the models...   Typical Harley marketing double talk Harley they call it  "Twin Cooled"  instead of liquid cooled.

Depending on the bike and use I prefer air cooled as well (both my bikes are aircooled)  but I was also a 2-stroke fan and have adjusted...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 12:27:32 pm by LuckyPuck »
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Offline Chris

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2015, 03:28:43 pm »
I've been enjoying the "why liquid cooling" discussion and would only point out a few points not mentioned yet.   Yes, liquid cooled motors are the future I agree.  I'd expect that while we will have air cooled motorcycles around for a long while I doubt any new engine designs will be air cooled any more than I'd expect them to have carbs.  Why is that?  Well, there's more to it than lower emissions.

1)  Yes, the search for lower emissions is helping drive the air cooled motor out but not because there's anything inherently cleaner about liquid cooling.  What's happening is that new engines can have very carefully controlled fueling thanks to injectors and equally controlled ignition so they can run very lean compared to old fashioned carbs and ignition points set ups.  That makes for wonderfully low emissions compared to the old days but the downside is that the engines run hotter than they used to.  Too hot in fact for air cooling to reliably keep the cylinder heads cooled.

2) Those modern fueling and ignition systems also let the new motors make a lot more power than the old ones.  And, as Porsche discovered a long time ago, more power extracted from an air cooled motor quickly reaches the limit of what air cooling can deal with.  Once again, the first part of the motor to reach critical mass is the cylinder head where the heat originates.

3) One emission not considered in our discussion so far is noise.  All engines have internal mechanical noise.  But on a liquid cooled motor this noise is surrounded by a muffling water jacket.  The air cooled motor, by comparison, has fins that actually "ring" and help propagate the noise.  Manufacturers with air cooled engines often have to put very quiet exhaust systems on their bikes to meet overall noise requirements.  With liquid cooling a louder, and often more performance friendly exhaust system can be used.

4) Let's consider longevity.  An air cooled motor will experience more extremes of temperature in its "normal" operating range.  By comparison, a liquid cooled motor largely reaches a set operating temp and stays there.  This means a liquid cooled motor can be built to closer tolerances and is far kinder to its life giving oil supply.  It's not by accident that most modern liquid cooled motorcycle engines almost never need major maintenance for the life of the bike.

So, there you have it.  From an engineering standpoint there aren't many reasons to favor air cooling.  In fact, the only reason to select an air cooled engine for a new motorcycle design boils down to "style".  I'm not getting rid of my air cooled bikes and love the looks of the old iron.  But I know which engine almost all future bikes will have.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 08:59:47 pm by Chris »
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Offline LuckyPuck

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2015, 03:42:24 pm »
Good points Chris.
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Offline Luvmystar

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2015, 07:18:10 pm »
Well said Chris.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2015, 08:45:27 pm »
Chris
You educated me. Makes me glad that I ride a water cooled bike. I really like my 1100 Shadow. Hope to keep it for a while.
Darrell
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Offline gotgixers

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2015, 05:21:45 am »
I still like oil cooled ..... :n21
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Offline Chris

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2015, 04:06:06 am »
I still like oil cooled ..... :n21

Given the size of the oil coolers (radiators) on Bandits and early Gixxers wouldn't you say that's another form of liquid cooling?
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Offline Sarge

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Re: 2016 Triumph Bonneville: over 1000cc & liquid cooled!
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2015, 08:15:51 am »
I would say that. Anything that makes the motor run coolers. But, I still like the clean look of an air cooled bike.
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