Author Topic: Batteries - My 2014 CB500X (UPDATE - INFO on Battery & a Desulfating Charger)  (Read 1194 times)

Offline PAULRIDES

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Battery suddenly dead I discovered THU AM. Rode Burgman 400 with Jackie day before.  :)

Anyway, was shocked to see price of a Yuasa (around $160). So went on a search and ended up with MOTOBATT.

http://www.motobattbatteries.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=MBTZ10S

I saw it on E-Bay for $65.90 but figured I would rather order from Company with 2 Year Warranty and if problem on receipt. Warranty is not pro rated - failure gets new battery. Hope that works.  :)

I called them about fit for 2014 CB500X as that bike does not show up on their web site. They looked in a book and said they had the 2013 CB500X listed and that was the battery for it.

Measurements indicate this battery is 0.4 inches taller than my old one but OK on L and W.  (Measured old one with Micrometer).

I think there is room under the seat, but will likely have to jury rig the tie down strap (rubber like strap with hooks  that is pretty stiff). Also, there is a L shaped Flange under the seat that looks like it might touch the battery, but I don't think it was touching the old battery.

Anyway, one reason I called them is in case things don't work out (we have touched base about that).

This battery has four sets of terminals (+ and -) on each side. Makes it more compatible with various bikes and extra terminals to hook accessories if needed. Mostly decent reviews on web sites (like Amazon) and a guy on CB500X Forum responded that he uses MOTOBATT in all his bikes (3 of them).

One guy on Amazon did not like the terminal connections, but managed to work it out. Another guy received a battery that was only 7.8VDC and Amazon would not allow shipment of a battery back to them.  Amazon did ship him a new battery.   

I was tempted on this battery ($54.95).

http://www.batterymart.com/p-YTZ10S-BS-AGM-Maintenance-Free-Battery.html

BatteryMart also had the MotoBatt for $80 which is where I initially found it and became interested in MotoBatt. 

However, figured I would rather by directly from MotoBatt.

http://www.motobattbatteries.com/

http://www.motobattbatteries.com/



« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 01:16:03 pm by PAULRIDES »
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Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Batteries - In Particular for my 2014 CB500X
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2018, 10:43:35 am »
Trying to get a new battery under a 2 yr warranty (advertised when I bought it).
 
UPDATE on Motobatt --- Installed Jan 2016. Apparently died  Dec 31, 2017. Working on seeing if they stand behind the 2 year warranty.

Here is brief story (hard for me to be brief about anything with details involved).

Start with 2016 problems (April and August time frame) that is not actually related to the present issue, but kind of interesting find.  Briefly (that word again) had problems finding battery discharged to 9v or one time 4v another and of course bike would not start.

Dealer that shipped me the battery is in KY, so I contacted him both times. Nice guy and knowledgeable about batteries. Final story on that was both times (Apr and Aug) he gave me a procedure to charge the battery and take some voltage data --- results said, BATTERY OK. He figured I had a drainage someplace when on the bike. I did find a drainage during the AUG situation.

I finally figured out the GPS Power Cord was draining battery down (apparently there is a circuitry in the plug). I had a thought about that when I realized the green light on the plug was on. So, I disconnected the plug and battery stopped draining down. STILL CANNOT EXPLAIN how I went 3 1/2 months before Apr and 4 months between Apr and Aug without a problem without a drain down. Surely, I did not have the GPS Power Cord disconnected all that time.

Anyway, I did not have a problem from Aug 2016 til Dec 31, 2017. I always disconnected the GPS Power Cord when not using the GPS on a ride during that time period.

OK all that ' brief ' and just now getting to the present (Dec 31, 2017 til now Jan 7) situation when I am trying to get a new battery under warranty.

Dec 31, 2017 I rode to the gym (maybe start was a little weak at home -- have had some feelings about that anyway). It started when I left the gym a couple hours after arriving, but start was very weak (cranked over slowly). I stopped by Wallgreen for say 15 MIN and bike would not start when I came out (mostly just a clicking noise, maybe engine turned over a little).

FORTUNATELY, I had the Lithium Booster (GB40) in saddle bag. Rather than take the seat off, I used two light weigh wires I brought out from under the seat (used to measure battery and to Trickle Charge it). I connected the Booster to the leads and let it set for 2 minutes. Engine cranked over and started no problem. Idle Speed showed 14.3v on battery (charging circuit is working). That indicates for me --- Bike is OK and battery is bad.

I did a number of checks and collected data before calling Battery Dealer. Basically, the battery charges up with Trickle Charger and that also indicated battery was not discharged much cause the Trickle Charger would blink (indicating almost full charge) almost as soon as connected and shut off within 30 or 40 minutes (auto cutoff when charged). Voltage on battery then would be like 13.2v. Bike would start and I did a 10 minute test ride at 33F, came home and let it set outside for say 10 minutes and it started again. ANYWAY, sent all that data to Dealer via E Mail and we discussed it.

He suspects a crack in a cell that shows up under load (starting load). However, he wanted a Load Test - sent a procedure (hopefully using a Carbon Pile Load Test.

Suggested I take it to an AUTO Parts Store, but said likely they will only have a digital tester. Make sure they put 190CCA into the tester when doing the test and record voltage before and during the test. His comments: Voltage will drop to 9.8 to 10v under load for a good battery. A sulfated battery will be in the lower 9v range. A battery with a problem will drop below 9v by the second or third time you do the test.

I did not have much luck with testing at AUTO Store. AUTO ZONE used what I think was a Digital Tester (seemed to not know what a carbon Pile Load Tester was). We did two tests there (had entered 190CCA as required) and both happened very quickly with Bad Battery Result). happened so fast that I could only see the start voltages (like 12.4v and a variation on my digital voltmeter of like 11.?? v during the test). I suspect meter could not react quickly enough to see the actual voltage.

Took the battery to another store and their tester would only say (battery is discharged -- voltage at start of the test was 12.26v. MY MISTAKE was I had done Load Tests at Home using the bike as the LOAD (starter circuitry - as it was not starting, just trying to start).

So, guess none of the load tests at the store mean much. I will recharge the battery and try the stores again (just to see). PRETTY SURE the load test I did on the bike shows the data he wanted. But, the voltage during test was erratic with meter jumping around.

HERE IS LOAD TEST I did (using bike as load):
01-04-2018 I had charged the battery on 01-04-2018 at 1:20PM to 13.13v.

01-06-2018 LOAD TEST
11:25AM Had 12.68v (sitting 46 hours in basement - temp at 45F)
11:30AM Key on, Bright Light 11.5V - Turned Key Off.
11:32AM Tried to start. No Start motor turned over a little (meter jumping around could not get reading.
                Turned Key off and noted battery had 9.8v and started increasing rapidly.
11:34AM Battery was back to 12.47v then a little later 12.51v.
11:37AM 12.51v
11:38AM 11.5v Key on Lights on Low Beam Key off.
11:44AM 12.49v Tried to start. No Start. Weaker than last time. Turend Key off and noted 8.9v then 9.3v and rapidly increasing.
11:46AM 12.41v
11:48AM 12.45v settled
11:49AM Tried start again. No start. Very weak attempt. Left the started button depressed longer and saw voltage sort of settle at 4.8v +/- some (bouncing around a bit). Shut key off and saw 9.8v rapidly increasing.
11:51AM 12.17v
USED BOOST (Lithium GB40) to start bike - start OK.
12:05PM Connected Boost to the light weight test leads i have brought out from under the seat(reading 12.42v). PS: Note that is the voltage I had at AUTO STORE on first test.
12:10PM I had let the Boost connected 5 minutes before trying to start bike at 12:10PM.
I had lights on Low Beam (I think they turn off when you hit start button anyway).
BIKE STARTED and IDLE voltage was 14.3v.

Hope, I get new battery.  :happyrider :pop

 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 10:44:41 am by PAULRIDES »
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Offline Luvmystar

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Re: Batteries - In Particular for my 2014 CB500X
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2018, 06:49:52 pm »
Only thought is what is the voltage at say 3000-3500 rpm?
Marc

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Offline IanC

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Re: Batteries - In Particular for my 2014 CB500X
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2018, 09:19:37 pm »
In my experience, Yuasa is more expensive for a reason.
1978 Suzuki GS1000EC - Completely custom.
2012 Triumph Daytona 675R

Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Batteries - In Particular for my 2014 CB500X
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2018, 11:03:37 pm »
Can't imagine voltage would be less at 3500 rpm than at idle.

Yuasa batteries are probably the best. Think they only have a 1 year warranty, think that is what you sold me for the Burgman 400 when you were at Mtn Mtr Sport. It's still in there. Not sure about all that (would have to look).

Haven's seen any bad reviews on Yuasa (See mostly good on Motobatt also, but some problems as well).

Never can be sure about reviews, some are after guy just gets the battery and it works, some may be for other problems (not ridden enough, not trickle charged, etc.).

Yuasa for mine was quoted at $160 (Mtn Mtr Sport) plus tax. I didn't look on E Bay or anyplace (now see Yuasa for mine on E Bay from $117 to $179).

Motobatt  on E Bay for $67 to $100 (no shipping, no tax). Guy I am working with on my problem said $92 (I think no tax or shipping). Seems I paid $67 last time (2 yr ago) and no tax or shipping.

2 years use and maybe stand behind warranty.

I recharged it today and went back to Advance Auto (on Jan 6 there tester said needs charge and did not run test). This time it said Battery Good (Printout said 12.57v, 104 CCA (I had told them to set machine for 190 CCA), Rated YB5L-B (it's a MBTZ10S -- so not sure they ran the right test), Temperature 71F.

I then went back to Auto Zone where it showed Bad Battery Jan 6 (might not have been charged good). Jan 7 we did 3 tests - all said bad Battery.
Test 1 had 12.71v then turned on their tester and had 12.3, then dropped to 8.5v during the test.
Test 2 and Test 3 about same except saw voltage drop to 8.7v and 9.0v.

PS: it happens fast and not sure meter keeps up with the voltage and not sure caught the lowest reading.

I put it back in the bike and it would not start - held start button on for a time (saw 4 and 6v readings until I released starter - then saw 9.?? and build back up to 12.4v pretty quick after I turned key off.

I am letting it charge overnight (Trickle charger) -- left it showing 13.2v with charging light ON.   
Ride Country Roads - a lot. :-)

Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Batteries - In Particular for my 2014 CB500X
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 09:57:35 am »
Jan 8 Load Tests with MC as Load. After Charging (Trickle Charge left on all night (Jan 7 5;35PM to Jan 8 7:56AM


I don't know a lot about batteries and the problems they might have or indications they give. Have learned a lot from this effort. My best guess is there is a short (based on what some folks have said) or as you say a crack. All I know is it is not starting the bike regularly and lately NOT AT ALL, even after being fully charged from 5:35PM  (Jan 7)  til 7:56AM (Jan 8). SEE DATA I did this AM (Jan 8) below.

FINAL TEST  ---  JAN 8 after charging Battery all night with Trickle Charger.

LOAD TESTS USING MC AS LOAD (I think best cause it did not start and could let it try to start longer to read voltages). The AUTO Store Tests are so quick can hardly have time to read voltages, but I did get some readings at Auto Zone on Jan 7 (above data).

7:56AM (JAN 8) Disconnected Trickle Charger --- saw 13.26v decreasing to 13.13v and seemed settled at 13.03v at 7:59AM.

7:59AM (shortly after) Turned Key on (Low beams) 11.9v. Hit Start Switch - did not start, but was cranking some and clicking, held Start Switch on and saw voltages bouncing around (6.5v to 7.9v range - hard to pinpoint). Turned key off.

8:02AM 12.65V  built up voltage by itself. Key on and Start Switch on, did not start and held it for a bit (saw voltages bouncing around as low as 5v to 8v).

8:10AM  12.58V built up voltage by itself.

END TEST - Looking Fwd to a resolution of this problem. Hopefully stand behind warranty (generous at 2 years)

Ride Country Roads - a lot. :-)

Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Batteries - In Particular for my 2014 CB500X
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 10:14:22 am »
Just INFO --- still working on my 2 YR Warranty.  :banghead

http://www.motobattbatteries.com/motobatt-mbtz10s.html

MBTZ10S still shows 2 year Warranty -- price here is $91

Saw one on E Bay (think was like $62).

Ride Country Roads - a lot. :-)

Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Batteries - In Particular for my 2014 CB500X
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2018, 07:57:51 pm »
A good INFO on Batteries and maintenance and what causes failures. A good deal of reading -- worth it. We tend not to treat batteries good and many things can affect the life.

https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/battery-basics.html

Might not be a bad place to buy batteries -considering sicne I found out they are not honoring my Motobatt failure (2 years). I think they are legitimate on No Warranty based on fact I had deep discharges (drain down twice in 2016). From INFO in the above link -- that is something that can affect life.

More on that decision in the next post (reply).
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 08:26:10 pm by PAULRIDES »
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Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Batteries - In Particular for my 2014 CB500X
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2018, 08:25:27 pm »
I finally (01-15-2018) received an E Mail from Darren that I bought battery from Motobatt Batteries with the decision not to replace battery under warranty because the battery history of two drain downs (Apr 2016 and Aug 2016).

By The Way -- Darren a Motobatt distributor or dealer (Motobatt Batteries is Darren's Companyin KY  vs Motobatt the Mfg in FL). According to Motobatt the warranty decision is left up to the distributor, Darren of Motobatt Batteries.

DANG confusing to me.  :banghead

His theory is, I was lucky to have saved the battery for 2 years after those deep discharge events. I had discussed the battery being bad then with Darren and his suggested tests tests revealed battery was OK. Theory was, something was draining it down. I finally discovered the GPS Power Cord was draining the battery. Long story on that -- enough said.

Anyway, I agreed with his decision (not that I had any choice). 

He did apologize with several reasons (excuses) for not getting back to me sooner.  It has been since end of DEC when I first discussed the present problem with him and did some load tests he recommended and sent the last of that data to him on Jan 8. I then tried in vain to contact him by E Mail, Phone, etc., and sent E Mail to Motobatt (an address I found on their web site for Warranty Questions).  That's another long story and leave it at that.

ALL THAT SAID, I have respect for Darren and I think Motobatt batteries are good for the money (mine now is $92 -- I paid $80 in 2016).

I bought it mainly because at the time if you ordered direct from Motobatt, it had a 2 yr warranty. OH Well !!!

Darren has offered a 35% discount - Should $92 minus 35% =  $58.80 and No Tax, Not sure about Shipping as of now.

I have sent E Mail back asking about total price delivered (he did not say, just said 35% discount). I might buy it

Or, I might buy this:

$109
https://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/YTZ10S.html?utm_source=Criteo&utm_campaign=Retargeting&utm_medium=CPC

Or, can't seem to get the link copied to paste a $42 lessor version of above.

Or, keep searching. HA!

 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 08:30:40 pm by PAULRIDES »
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Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Batteries - In Particular for my 2014 CB500X
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2018, 12:23:22 pm »
Decided to try another Motobatt at the offer of 35% off retail. End up $58.77 (Includes tax and shipping).

Support USA MFG (MOTOBATT) in FL and Online Distributor MOTOBatteries.com in KY.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 12:25:18 pm by PAULRIDES »
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Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Batteries - In Particular for my 2014 CB500X
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2018, 12:44:57 pm »
Been told Pulse Tech Chargers are good for reducing or eliminating sulfate on battery - prolong life.

www.pulsetech.com

How their charger reduces sulfating.

https://www.pulsetech.net/our-technology/pulse-technology.html

I guess this would be the model of interest.

https://www.pulsetech.net/xc100-p-xtreme-charge-12v-battery-maintenance-charger-desulfator.html
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 01:12:28 pm by PAULRIDES »
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Offline PAULRIDES

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I guess this would be the model of interest.

https://www.pulsetech.net/xc100-p-xtreme-charge-12v-battery-maintenance-charger-desulfator.html

And, I bought it from Battery Stuff $75 include shipping) DANG quick delivery.

Hooked it up to my VAN --- New battery installed in 2013 Battery.

Probably only drive it once a week or every two weeks for short trips (occasional camping trip of couple hundred miles), so figured near end of life due to sulfation.

Charger does a test (decided if battery is bad). Passed that test and started the charging and pulsing.

Took some time to get to 75%, I had it hooked up for like 12 hours  (shows steps starting at 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%).

Never did get to 100% -- instead it goes back to test and shows 25% then pretty quickly gets to 75%. Kind of repeats that sequence.

I disconnected charger from the VAN and put it on the Scooter Battery -- it got to 100% pretty quick (within 2 hours or so).

Disconnected it again and put on the VAN -- repeating previous (to 75% and starts over).

I think cause that battery is no longer able to reach 100% (sulfation probably the cause). The VAN still starts, so keep using it and keep charging it regularly since it sits so much.

Ride Country Roads - a lot. :-)