Author Topic: Gun Carry -- Public Property -- PUB Chapter 467 Passed July 2017  (Read 156 times)

Offline PAULRIDES

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Thorn in my side is they still have the 39-17-1359 sign on the entry to Pigeon Forge Community Center.

PUB 467 deals with Senate Bill 0445 / House Bill 508  (SB0445 / HB 508). Basically that amends TN 39-17-1359 to say for certain Public Buildings (does not apply to libraries, building where court is held, and some other locations) that if weapons are restricted by a sign as called for in 39-17-1359, you need a metal detector and/or Security.

It also amends TN39-17-1314 which basically allows one to sue and collect damages or 3 times the lawyer's fees if suit is won.

I AIN'T a lawyer, but that is the way I read it all (and believe me you need to be a lawyer to understand the DANG Laws the way they are written).  :groan

I wrote EMAILs to City Hall and Manager of the Community Center a week ago regarding why they still have a sign on the Community Center -- NO RESPONSE.

I followed up today with another MAIL asking if they would reply and attached the Pub 467.

Not that I intend to carry when in the gym working out but the law is the law and I think Pigeon Forge is in violation.

PS: I might add that I am not into all the Amendment 2 fights by the NRA, MFG'ers, and Dealers in terms of being against any additional regulations (background checks, transfer of guns by private parties, required training for firearm ownership and especially more training for Carry Permits). My Opinion all that is needed. 

Besides all that, I am fed up with this State Rights Stuff --  Different DANG Laws in every state for not only guns, but driver license, hunting, fishing, marriage, you name it.

I do believe in the right to bear arms (own weapons of certain types) and glad we have a second amendment that allows us to fight take over of the right by government. That despite the fact the amendment states -- because of need for a Militia (that need dates back to a previous time in history).   
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 11:02:13 am by PAULRIDES »
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Offline Chris

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Re: Gun Carry -- Public Property -- PUB Chapter 467 Passed July 2017
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2018, 11:01:43 pm »
I do believe in the right to bear arms (own weapons of certain types) and glad we have a second amendment that allows us to fight take over of the right by government. That despite the fact the amendment states -- because of need for a Militia (that need dates back to a previous time in history).   

As I am not a lawyer I have no opinion about what the sign on the community center should say or mean.

As a historian, I do have some opinions about what the 2nd Amendment says and means.

The Founders actually went to some lengths to use straight forward, easily understood language in framing the Constitution.  But, and this is no fault of theirs, the language and words meanings have shifted in the last 200 years.  That simple fact is the chief reason the meaning of the 2nd Amendment causes so much confusion and debate.  Two of the key words in the text whose meaning was very plain to the 18th century writers have come to mean something different to our 21st century readers.

2nd Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

So what is "a well regulated militia"?

In the present day "well regulated" most commonly would translate as "properly" or "completely" controlled.  For example, we might say, "the heat in my house is well regulated".  Also, 21st century citizens think of "militia" as an archaic term for what was the 18th century equivalent of the modern citizen-soldiers organizations, the National Guard formations of the various states.  So, to many modern readers the phrase "a well regulated militia" seems to mean "a properly controlled National Guard" which would mean that the 2nd Amendment is really talking about a state's right to equip its self defense organization.  It would then be a collective right of the citizens and their state.

But in the 18th century the words "regulated" and "militia" had very different commonly accepted meanings.  "Regulated" as it applies to military matters meant "trained" and "disciplined".  We know this from the common term for professional, full time soldiers and airmen in our 21st century military which still reflects that original meaning.  We call them "regulars" showing that they are a fully trained, disciplined, and professional force as opposed to "reserves" which are our part time military.  The phrase "militia" also meant something different to the Founders generation.  To them, the militia was every able bodied male of military age in their community.  Their governing idea was that in an emergency, the community (or state) would expect that every man who physically could would show up (with guns!) to help combat any threat or emergency thus forming the militia which would defend their homes.  So, to those earlier Americans the militia was everybody.  (well, okay, not really everybody....every white adult male.   But you knew that, right?)

Okay, let's try the 2nd amendment now knowing the meanings the Founders gave to the words:

Having all the men well trained and ready to defend us, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of everybody to keep and carry weapons, shall not be infringed.

And that is a very personal right, as confirmed in the Supreme Court's Heller decision in 2008.

And this wasn't a new idea even in 1791.  The founders themselves cited the English Bill of Rights of 1689 and the idea of a personal right to possess weapons goes back even further in English Common Law as a part of the long-established natural right of self-defense.

But that's a story for another time.   
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 12:39:43 am by Chris »
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Offline PAULRIDES

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Re: Gun Carry -- Public Property -- PUB Chapter 467 Passed July 2017
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2018, 10:58:18 am »
I think you put it much better than I did or can. I think I agree with your interpretation (assuming I understand your interpretation).

I don't believe the 2nd Amendment gives us the right to have arms for fun (hunting, shooting, contests, etc.), or even self defense.

THAT SAID, I am glad we are allowed to do that.

And, add another THAT SAID, I think regulations and required training in the use of those rights should be part of it. So, not in favor of all the efforts to block anything that is an effort to regulate.

And, another THAT SAID, some regulations need to be blocked.

PS: The Pigeon Forge Community Center, and Officials I sent letters regarding the sign on the community center HAVE NOT RESPONDED. Wish I knew who to contact to get the law enforced (assuming I am right about their sign is against the law as of July 1, 2017.
 
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